Praise, or Propaganda? -Will Brady
This was an eclectic collection of material... I will be the first to admit, I read the entirety of the Chaucer poem in the ye olde English not knowing what the heck it meant because I thought the second column was the other half of the poem in the same language and didn't even look at it to see that it was the modern translation. Hahah no, the pressure is not getting to me thanks.
Aside from that, can we talk about the Venerable Bede? His works interested me greatly... Visions, foreknowledge, and the greatest poet of all time who "none could ever compare with him, because he did not learn the art of poetry from men, but from God"? It all sounds very... fairy tale-y. Don't get me wrong, of course I don't believe that any of the content of these tales is outside the power of God. But I do wonder about several things--first of all, the apparent meaninglessness of so many of these visions and acts of foresight (such as knowing that Abbess Hilda died a few hours before the news is delivered, or Caedmon knowing the hour of his death). In the Bible, visions are always associated with prophecies or messages from God on incredibly important topics. Even today, there are many stories of visions occurring in hotbeds of Christian persecution where people are trying to get the Word of God; there are reports of Muslims in the Middle East showing up at the doorsteps of underground missionaries whom they had never met, saying something along the lines of "Jesus Christ appeared to me in a dream, gave me your address, and told me that I needed the Gospel you know of to be saved." Much like in the Bible, I believe that those things can truly happen.
These stories though... They're different. They all seem to take place amongst holy kings and monastic orders, and, with few exceptions, feel like they do little more than deliver shock and awe for no apparent reason. Honestly, considering how closely the church was allied with the state in these days and how strictly it was trying to gain control over people (sometimes for good purposes, sometimes for bad--we call it the Dark Ages for a reason), this feels like propaganda. They sound like pro-Church news stories intended to recruit people into monasticism to serve the Church government, just like what Ponticianus felt guilt for doing in Confessions. When Caedmon is declared to be the greatest poet in the land, with whom none could compare, that sounds like the same thing: join our ranks, and God will bless you and make you supernaturally good at your favorite craft. Get particularly close to Him, and you will receive miraculous visions and the power to foresee your own death!
Could God do such a thing? Absolutely, I won't for a second say that these visions are remotely beyond the realm of possibility. But these things in particular sound a little sketchy to me. The motive for fabrication is there, and the practical reasons for a miraculous vision aren't. I'm just not ready to accept any unverifiable non-biblical record of visions quite so readily.
P.S. I commented on Josh and Owen’s posts*
*Disclaimer: Will Brady does not condone or concur with any heretical statements found to be included in the content of Owen’s blog. Acknowledgement of his religious stances does not equate to agreement with them. Side effects of exposure to heretical statements may include doctrinal error, Biblical misconceptions, accusations of Satanism, and/or hellfire via eternal damnation. Protective measures of genuine Biblical teaching highly recommended in all circumstances, particularly encounters with heresy.
Aside from that, can we talk about the Venerable Bede? His works interested me greatly... Visions, foreknowledge, and the greatest poet of all time who "none could ever compare with him, because he did not learn the art of poetry from men, but from God"? It all sounds very... fairy tale-y. Don't get me wrong, of course I don't believe that any of the content of these tales is outside the power of God. But I do wonder about several things--first of all, the apparent meaninglessness of so many of these visions and acts of foresight (such as knowing that Abbess Hilda died a few hours before the news is delivered, or Caedmon knowing the hour of his death). In the Bible, visions are always associated with prophecies or messages from God on incredibly important topics. Even today, there are many stories of visions occurring in hotbeds of Christian persecution where people are trying to get the Word of God; there are reports of Muslims in the Middle East showing up at the doorsteps of underground missionaries whom they had never met, saying something along the lines of "Jesus Christ appeared to me in a dream, gave me your address, and told me that I needed the Gospel you know of to be saved." Much like in the Bible, I believe that those things can truly happen.
These stories though... They're different. They all seem to take place amongst holy kings and monastic orders, and, with few exceptions, feel like they do little more than deliver shock and awe for no apparent reason. Honestly, considering how closely the church was allied with the state in these days and how strictly it was trying to gain control over people (sometimes for good purposes, sometimes for bad--we call it the Dark Ages for a reason), this feels like propaganda. They sound like pro-Church news stories intended to recruit people into monasticism to serve the Church government, just like what Ponticianus felt guilt for doing in Confessions. When Caedmon is declared to be the greatest poet in the land, with whom none could compare, that sounds like the same thing: join our ranks, and God will bless you and make you supernaturally good at your favorite craft. Get particularly close to Him, and you will receive miraculous visions and the power to foresee your own death!
Could God do such a thing? Absolutely, I won't for a second say that these visions are remotely beyond the realm of possibility. But these things in particular sound a little sketchy to me. The motive for fabrication is there, and the practical reasons for a miraculous vision aren't. I'm just not ready to accept any unverifiable non-biblical record of visions quite so readily.
P.S. I commented on Josh and Owen’s posts*
*Disclaimer: Will Brady does not condone or concur with any heretical statements found to be included in the content of Owen’s blog. Acknowledgement of his religious stances does not equate to agreement with them. Side effects of exposure to heretical statements may include doctrinal error, Biblical misconceptions, accusations of Satanism, and/or hellfire via eternal damnation. Protective measures of genuine Biblical teaching highly recommended in all circumstances, particularly encounters with heresy.
I can definitely see what you mean, especially with the visions and how the government and Church were intertwining. I thought it was something to note that King Edwin was essentially guaranteed victory, even when it doesn't look like his victory won anything for the Kingdom of God. Your post have definitely given me more to think about.
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU IT IS THE WORDS I FEEL. Like, I had a hard time lacing those into my blog post - writing the whole thing in general was difficult - but to me it just didn't seem real. Hah. It's a mood, I guess. I don't mean to be of little faith, but, I don't think God would've kept in that one area with visions and foresight without a clear purpose - as God acts to ultimately show Himself and His power, and I wonder how He could possibly receive glory from the "events" that take place. So while I know God COULD do them, WOULD He? You did a much better job than I could do with this subject, but I do want to add.... Why would God stay in that single area if He wanted to give all these visions? Why didn't people throughout the known world receive foresight and visions so that they could see that throughout creation there was a Power going through? That's what has me questioning this legitimacy, too, is that it seems pointless and kept within a small circle - which you said could used to draw people into the religion, I think it was more to make themselves look better than others. I guess I would have to do more research to truly judge them, but I definitely am skeptical.
ReplyDeleteExactly, upon hearing about these visions and stories, I became skeptical myself. If God decides to give power or cause a supernatural event, should it lead us as Christians to glorify Him even more... or should it amaze an unbeliever that some really powerful stuff happens in the church, offering them to support the gover...(FAKE COUGH), excuse me, to support the church? I really question how knowing that a nun died a few hours early through a vision was so necessary that God himself intervened and granted the sight. Throughout scripture everything leads us to glorify and praise God more, and this account appears to be lacking, or fabricating. I have no idea what God's specific plan is for each and every human being, and nor do I understand the intricacies of His limitless wisdom and knowledge, but I will still question reports such as this that are suspect to having intentions besides glorifying God and making disciples.
ReplyDeleteYou make a really good point and bring many things to light that i did not originally pick up on. I noticed that some of these visions sounded a little more entertaining than true however i don't suppose it to be impossible that others had received visions as well, common people, and either didn't write them down or were considered heresy or convinced themselves that they are crazy. Still this does not discount the fact that these visions seemed not super useful and the stories surrounding them, fairy-tail like. On a side note I too read the left side of the poem first thinking that the other side was the rest of the poem. you're not alone
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