Like Sparta, but Robots - AnnaKate Burleson
First of all, I have to start this off with an apology to my roommate. I have interrupted her Bates Motel marathon far too many times with deep sighs of frustration and the occasional, "What the heck!?" I feel bad that she had to be here while I read this mess that is Book V. Sorry, Brooklyn. I had no choice.
I have to admit, nothing Socrates was saying really confused or angered me for about the first ten pages. Obviously, as a woman it does irritate me to hear people say women are the inferior, weaker sex over and over again, but it was Ancient Greece. I can cut them a little slack. Socrates really lost me when he opened up the discussion of family by saying, "...the wives of our guardians are to be common, and their children are to be common, and no parent is to know his own child, nor any child his parents." I'm sorry, what?? He goes on to say that when it comes to marriage, the STATE should choose which people will marry in order to maximize efficiency in breeding. The term "breed" that is used in the text feels incredibly animalistic, but even animals know their own offspring. Even animals will care for their own young. To keep wives and children in common among the men completely strips the process of marriage and raising a child of anything human about it. Socrates is no longer proposing a human society. He is describing a city made of robots. The citizens in the city Socrates describes are slaves to the state with no sense of freedom or individuality even within their own family life.
But just wait. It gets worse.
He continues his nonsensical spewing of ideas by saying, "...the offspring of the inferior, or of the better when they chance to be deformed, will be put away in some mysterious, unknown place, as they should be." This is literally the most horrific thing he could have said. We've gone from stripping humans of their individuality to committing infanticide.
This whole book is just a mess. There is so much more that Socrates says that infuriates me but if I listed all of it, my post would be way too long and no one would want to read it or grade it. Maybe I'll write my research paper on all the reasons why Socrates' ideas are terrible.
P.S. I've only commented on Zelda's so far :D
I have to admit, nothing Socrates was saying really confused or angered me for about the first ten pages. Obviously, as a woman it does irritate me to hear people say women are the inferior, weaker sex over and over again, but it was Ancient Greece. I can cut them a little slack. Socrates really lost me when he opened up the discussion of family by saying, "...the wives of our guardians are to be common, and their children are to be common, and no parent is to know his own child, nor any child his parents." I'm sorry, what?? He goes on to say that when it comes to marriage, the STATE should choose which people will marry in order to maximize efficiency in breeding. The term "breed" that is used in the text feels incredibly animalistic, but even animals know their own offspring. Even animals will care for their own young. To keep wives and children in common among the men completely strips the process of marriage and raising a child of anything human about it. Socrates is no longer proposing a human society. He is describing a city made of robots. The citizens in the city Socrates describes are slaves to the state with no sense of freedom or individuality even within their own family life.
But just wait. It gets worse.
He continues his nonsensical spewing of ideas by saying, "...the offspring of the inferior, or of the better when they chance to be deformed, will be put away in some mysterious, unknown place, as they should be." This is literally the most horrific thing he could have said. We've gone from stripping humans of their individuality to committing infanticide.
This whole book is just a mess. There is so much more that Socrates says that infuriates me but if I listed all of it, my post would be way too long and no one would want to read it or grade it. Maybe I'll write my research paper on all the reasons why Socrates' ideas are terrible.
P.S. I've only commented on Zelda's so far :D
Your commenting on the choosing of the word breeding was something I could relate to, at least in terms of your frustration. When he began with the dog analogy I immedailty began to feel extreme annoyance at this idea -- by reducing the very emotional (not to mention physically challenging) experience of child-bearing is one that is reduced to a matter of state importance. A familial relationship for the Greeks took a different form than it does for modern readers, but at the same time, could the Greeks really be so far removed that they would allow this? It seems no one tries to challenge him, asking why he thinks no one will care about this (unless I just missed that part), so I sincerely hope this was in fact not the case.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that this seems a little animalistic, I can kind of get behind what he is saying. He isn't necessarily saying that women are inferior, but physically they are. I think he is just saying that in order for this system to work, everyone needs to be ordinary and just alike. No child needs to favor their parent over another elder so in order to do that, they can't know who they are. Overall, yes it seems crazy, but its the potential to be effective that is appealing.
ReplyDeleteThis complex system that Socrates is building on depends on consistency and has no room for exceptions. Everyone must not have influences in their actions besides the commands of the state. Absolutely everything is belonging to the state and possesses a purpose that is only in improving and maintaining the state. Marriage is being traded for a lie that simply grants planned offspring and leads to dehumanized relationships. We as humans have a sinful nature, and perhaps Socrates thinks that the only way to correct this for a perfect city is to get rid of human nature altogether. This emphasis on the state does remind me greatly of Sparta and leads me to question what Socrates is implying.
ReplyDeleteThe reason for the state to choose who marries and that the children are to eliminate feeling toward one another. Like you said to make people robots. Socrates wants people to be exactly alike the other except that they are able to perform different jobs. This is just another part of his perfect world that is unrealistic. People will never be copies of another and if by some chance you are able to do so all then there will be no innovation because there are no new ideas or challenges.
ReplyDeleteYou. Are. Right. He basically wants to strip away any form of humanity to create this chalked-up society, this ideal city of perfection. I can see where he thinks this is the best way and most logical way, but it is without a doubt twisted.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't have thought of this society as animalistic, but I like the word. I do, however, disagree with your robot analogy. I just keep hearing Arianism. It's almost like Hitler and Sparta had a love child, and it makes me wonder if Hitler was a Plato fan.
ReplyDelete- Spencer Wood