AR$GG%HF*HR#GGHH (I'm frustrated.) - Zelda Peach
I am frustrated. This book just seems to keep getting worse and worse with their crazy ideas and regulations about what will be allowed in this city. There are several points in book three that they discuss that angers me a lot, but I think the one I am most upset about is something that was so glazed over, said in such passing, and barely even talked about, which makes the whole thing 100% worse.
On page 107 at the very bottom spilling onto page 108, Socrates says, "Those with bodily defects they will let die, and those with incurable evil in their souls they will kill.". This idea is appalling. The concept that in an ideal city anyone with any bodily defects would just not exist is mind-boggling. I understand that with modern medicine today we are living in a different world, but "any bodily defects" includes a lot of people who with a little help and care could probably be fine. The act of caring for others is also important for the helper as it teaches us discipline, care, and love. If no one ever has to care for anybody in this new republic would the citizens have empathy? Would they learn what love truly is? Or how by helping others you are learning to care for things other than yourself? Helping and caring for others is an important lesson we learn while growing up. The reason we grow up with pets is partly so that our parents can teach us these lessons of care and responsibility. One of the reasons this line set me off so much is that it reminds me of the "ending of down syndrome" in Europe. In a lot of European countries, if a woman finds out that she is pregnant with a baby who has down syndrome, often the doctors and other people will highly recommend getting an abortion. It is very upsetting to think about the thousands of babies being aborted for this one and only reason that they are "flawed". I am not trying to get into a debate here, I was only wanting to point out in a real-life situation what this would look like in today's world.
The other thing he says is, "those with incurable evil in their souls they will die.". Don't we all partly have incurable evil in souls? Isn't human nature to sin and be flawed? So, therefore, following this logic, before coming to God all of us have an "incurable evil" in our souls and should just die. What?! I am sorry if this blog post is not making much sense, I am just angry and might be struggling to get my point across. If you do understand though, don't these ideas make you angry?!?! Please express your angry in the comments and we can ramble on together about how absurd the whole thing is.
P.S I commented on Will and Kayla's post
On page 107 at the very bottom spilling onto page 108, Socrates says, "Those with bodily defects they will let die, and those with incurable evil in their souls they will kill.". This idea is appalling. The concept that in an ideal city anyone with any bodily defects would just not exist is mind-boggling. I understand that with modern medicine today we are living in a different world, but "any bodily defects" includes a lot of people who with a little help and care could probably be fine. The act of caring for others is also important for the helper as it teaches us discipline, care, and love. If no one ever has to care for anybody in this new republic would the citizens have empathy? Would they learn what love truly is? Or how by helping others you are learning to care for things other than yourself? Helping and caring for others is an important lesson we learn while growing up. The reason we grow up with pets is partly so that our parents can teach us these lessons of care and responsibility. One of the reasons this line set me off so much is that it reminds me of the "ending of down syndrome" in Europe. In a lot of European countries, if a woman finds out that she is pregnant with a baby who has down syndrome, often the doctors and other people will highly recommend getting an abortion. It is very upsetting to think about the thousands of babies being aborted for this one and only reason that they are "flawed". I am not trying to get into a debate here, I was only wanting to point out in a real-life situation what this would look like in today's world.
The other thing he says is, "those with incurable evil in their souls they will die.". Don't we all partly have incurable evil in souls? Isn't human nature to sin and be flawed? So, therefore, following this logic, before coming to God all of us have an "incurable evil" in our souls and should just die. What?! I am sorry if this blog post is not making much sense, I am just angry and might be struggling to get my point across. If you do understand though, don't these ideas make you angry?!?! Please express your angry in the comments and we can ramble on together about how absurd the whole thing is.
P.S I commented on Will and Kayla's post
"Love"? For people?! No, dear Zelda, love is for the state. If you loved and valued people more than the state, you might go out and engage in actions that compromised the integrity of the state--these actions could be range from abandoning your occupation and disrupting the economy to violating the strict rules of love-making outlined in Book V. Temperance must dominate your relationships. Strong emotions could lead directly to free will, and free will is a dangerous thing in this great Republic.
ReplyDeleteAfter establishing temperance in human emotions and undying love for the perpetuation of the state, decisions in favor of abortion and euthanizing the unfit against their will become simple logic. After all, what is truly important: the life or death of the few, or the establishment of utopia and true justice for the majority?
To summarize, AR$GG%HF*HR#GGHH
I noticed this line. I believe there reasoning for this is caused by their idea of a perfect society. Any one less than perfect cannot exist under these conditions. The thing they do not realize is what is their idea of "flaawed"? Is it just birth defects or is it injuries? When you expect so much out of a nation, standards become almost imposible to keep. I agree that it is a selfish thing for them to not help the disabled. Which humors me because it is a society that encourgaes love and peace, yet you will kill your own people to keep this idea of "perfection"
ReplyDeleteI really really relate to the title of this post. This is easily the most infuriating thing we've had to read so far. Socrates continues this idea of disposing of the "flawed" in book five, where he says they have to put the children of the "inferior" and babies with defects into a "mysterious place." And like?? What does that MEAN?? What is he TALKING about? Socrates needs to go outside and throw a ball or something. He's spent too much time inside his own head and now nothing he says is making any logical sense.
ReplyDeleteIf you are frustrated and angry now, wait until you get to book 5! I, too, am angered by Socrates and his assumptions. However, I try to look at it from the perspective of ancient culture. Why would he say something like this in the first place? Because Athens, which was supposed to be the best place in Greece, was defeated by Sparta. So, the philosophers are trying to figure out what Athens did wrong and what Sparta did right. Sparta was strong, there was no denying that. Socrates thought that one of the things that made them strong was their elimination of any and all weaknesses, including "weak" people. I am not trying to justify Socrates, he has some pretty awful ideas, I'm just trying to shed a little light as to why such horrible ideas would even enter his head.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately the idea that people with defects are less than those without defects is an idea that keeps popping up in history. In the old testament people with defects were considered to be punished by God. Hitler also wanted to get rid of not just the Jews but the mentally ill and physically unfit people. America also went through a time were people wanted to improve the genetic quality of the population (eugenics). The strong getting rid of the weak is the world's way of doing things. God's way is to help the weak and by doing so make both stronger for it.
ReplyDelete